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LBH's SCRoG tutorial

LBH

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Scrogging, or screen of green, is a form of lst (low stress training) where the main goal is to maximize the footprint of your light(s) by dividing, or breaking down the main cola, in conjunction with raising all the lower bud up to the canopy. To do this, we grow the plant horizontally till we are a few weeks into flowering. This is a key point as many attempts at scrogging turn out to be merely a skeletal support structures for standard plants, not a scrogs.

A scrog is when you bring those arms up and run them lengthwise under the screen so all those, would be popcorn buds, become real buds because they are brought up to the screen or because the screen is lowered allowing them to become a part of the canopy.

With standard, Christmas tree style plants, you can only lower the light till it’s close enough to the top cola. ANY bud from there down, get’s less light, the lower it is on the plant. The purpose behind scrogging is to manually change that and bring all the bud in an even layer by bringing the low stuff up (by getting screen good and low) and bringing the main cola down (by diving it via topping), to the canopy.

The rough pics below illustrate my point.

Group A- Scrog









Group B-not a scrog.









Now to break down the main cola and get the plant growing horizontally, I suggest trying my 4-way lst method.

Screen materials

I have tried pretty much most of the standard things you can use for screen. Below are the 4 main ones used, listed in my order of preference

STRING- The very best. Laces up quick and easy and you just snip, snip, snip come harvest time. Throw it away and lace up a new one.

Twine/hemp cord-Pretty much the same ease of use as string but you get hairs in the buds from fraying.

Plastic fencing- works well but is kinda sloppy looking.

Chicken wire/fishing line- The 2 worst. Chicken wire is terrible because the buds actually grow into it and you have to “cut” your harvest out. Snipping up chicken wire into a bunch of smaller pieces sucks, you get poked a lot and is an overall nightmare compared to string. Does it work as a screen? Quite well, but sucks to remove

The fishing line is just bad news as it can cut a stem, arm etc, very quickly and easily. Consider it “sharp”. I have only used 12 lb test, I imagine something in the 30+ range might work pretty good though. Avoid any “braided” lines especially

This is my version of a screen that is both easy to work and re-usable forever. I simply lined a square of 2x4's with eye hooks




Mounting


Many build feet for their screens. This somewhat limits you. I like having screens where the height can be adjusted either by a peg system or some other ingenious way. I use shower curtain rods for mine and they work well, but you have to get used to not leaning on the screen or disaster can be right around the corner. To me, it’s worth it not to have legs in the way. Allows more room for “under canopy” cleaning and maintenance.


So now that we are all laced up and ready to go, let’s talk about a key element to scrogging,….veg time.

Veg time varies greatly mainly with method. Hydro, it’s much shorter. I used to veg 6-8 weeks in soil and now in hydro, that’s cut in half. This is something you just have to play with to really learn. You need to run a screen that could have taken more plant to fill (more veg time) and also run one that is too crowded. Once you get these under your belt, you’ll really have a feel for veg time.

You will tailor the veg time according to how many plants and how big the screen. Sorry I can’t help more on this category, but this is the one you have to do to learn. The general rule to follow though is the screen should be no higher than 8” above the medium or plant base. You then fill your screen during the stretch by tucking (that’s coming) all those arms into the empty voids.

Topping (Illustrations in the 4-way lst tutorial)

By topping, we create more of these arms to spread out across the screen. That, to me,...is the whole point of a scrog. If I didn't top,...I'd have 1 cola higher than the rest, thusly, limiting my light height. By topping, that main cola gets divided down the buds are all level on the screen, allowing you to get that light right down on them for nice, even coverage. The expanse of the footprint will limit your height before heat does. (I have a/c lights)







The above plant was topped once. This gave me 2 arms to run under the screen. I normally build a plant like seen in my 4-way lst tutorial. I grew this one out specifically to illustrate how to run a branch horizontally under the screen. It will have 2 main colas, large, not XL as it was divided once already One more topping (4-way) and that pretty much divides the main into 4 med, med/lrg buds, perfect. But again this one was grown specifically so you could see how to grow an arm horizontally, this plant, if you wanted to name it, got "2-way" lst, which basically means,..topped once. I run 4 plants under a 4x4 screen and top twice (in hydro) (4 times when I ran soil)

Top any more and you'll get MORE,...SMALLER buds.

Tucking

Tucking is easy but takes care. ALWAYS TUCK SLOWLY AND CAUTIOUSLY


What we mean by tucking, is that while those arms are stretching, you allow it to grow up and through a square in the screen. I like to get them about 2”-3” above the screen and then I GENTLY, pull it below the screen and move it to the next square away. You continue to do this all throughout the stretch, …about 2-3 weeks.


Remember, you are controlling where that arm is going by moving it 1 square at a time. You can change you mind tomorrow if you see the need for it, the screen takes constant manipulating till the stretch is over but once it's done, so are your sgrogging duties.



To obtain maximum control don't be afraid to work add more bondage if it's needed. Zip ties are awesome and can be simply cut out with the fiskars pruners later.





This is the final result, what you are looking for. You want a 6-8" bud above the screen when the stretch is done.






You’ll know when the stretch is over because you’ll notice you never got the upward growth to move the arms to their next squares. This is when the bud formations begin. The scrogging is done.

Now just sit back and watch the grass grow!!
 

White Widow Man

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For peeps that require a Smaller area ta Work, .. .. Then, ..

LBH, .. .. Just laid it out, .. real nice .. ..

you fishing soon .. .. I just love your Way's, .. ..

I say, .. .. It feels, all right this time, .. ..

Well, .. You will show me a Thing or Two .. eh .. ..

LBH, .. .. I'm Stoned, .. I hope you are as well bro .. .. : ) .. .. . .
 

LBH

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I'll be on the water for next 3 nights straight widow man, woohoo!!

Widow also brings a good point,...this is a great way to maximize a limited amount of space. If I had room, $$ and a need for that much weed, to max out my card I would..........make 24 screens, 4'x4' with a 600 over each, veg for 5-6 weeks and really max out each plant. I'd love to see what they would do....

I forgot to add. To anyone reading, this isn't just to read and go do,..ASK QUESTIONS if this is your first time. We want to generate good discussion on scrogging here. That's how we get to the next level,...usually by brainstorming onto something by accident. We're stoners, but we'll get it done....eventually :lol:
 

Deth

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This is excellent man.. Was already thinking about it but now quite sure my next indoor will be a SCROG whenever that comes..
 

beachdude

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Nice guide LBH! If you have the time to train each plant like that your jars will start overfilling in no time.

I tried a screen this grow, but Its only serving the purpose of support atm :retard:
 

NL

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Nice write-up, LBH. This is such an underrated approach in indoor growing. I do everything but use a screen & that may need to be added soon given some of the scrog results I've seen lately.
 

NzLocal

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LBH nice one fella :)

Ive found scrog gives me the most yield from my little space.
Just in the stretch again now...

Havent needed to do any cutting of my wire screen before to remove buds, but I can see it would be an issue for people using decent lights.
 

LBH

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LBH nice one fella :)

Ive found scrog gives me the most yield from my little space.
Just in the stretch again now...

Havent needed to do any cutting of my wire screen before to remove buds, but I can see it would be an issue for people using decent lights.

The problem with the wire, for me, was that I run 4 plants nder ea screen and they never finish exactly on the same day as each other. With the string, 1 plant can still be removed from the screen, leaving the others in place. If I did that with the wire screen, I would have caused damage to lots of those buds.

And I HATE being poked with the sharp ends when I cut the screen out in the end. Again, WORKS great, but for me, there are easier materials to be using.
 

The Grim Reefer

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Great write up LBH :werd:

Few things ive notice with SCROG's, just to add to the discussion .....

  • If running more powerfull ballasts, a scrog in between group a and b from lbh's will be a better choice, the bulbs have the power to penetrate further, and you'll end up with a series of large cola's
  • Topping really helps with scrogging, it takes alot of the pressure off a single stem when then top is being bent sideways.
  • Clear away growth (leaves etc) under the screen once your scrog is taking hold. This will create more airflow, and growth and down here wont be getting enough light penetration anyways.
  • I use garden wire for my screens, probably not called the same everywhere though, its a thin metal wire, coated in a thin plastic thats very easily bendable. Anyways as LBH mentioned u sometime have to cut the wire, ive found the garden wire allowed me to cut where needed, and then just rebend what was left to keep the support with other plants that may be supported by that wire.
  • If going with a more group b approach, dont be afraid to retrain the buds that are above the screen, they can usually be tied into better positions than they naturally grow, to provide more light penetration.
 
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LBH

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Great write up LBH :werd:

Few things ive notice with SCROG's, just to add to the discussion .....

  • If running more powerfull ballasts, a scrog in between group a and b from lbh's will be a better choice, the bulbs have the power to penetrate further, and you'll end up with a series of large cola's
  • Topping really helps with scrogging, it takes alot of the pressure off a single stem when then top is being bent sideways.
  • Clear away growth under the screen once your scrog is taking hold. This will create more airflow, and growth and down here wont be getting enough light penetration anyways.
  • I use garden wire for my screens, probably not called the same everywhere though, its a thin metal wire, coated in a thin plastic thats very easily bendable. Anyways as LBH mentioned u sometime have to cut the wire, ive found the garden wire allowed me to cut where needed, and then just rebend what was left to keep the support with other plants that may be supported by that wire.
  • If going with a more group b approach, dont be afraid to retrain the buds that are above the screen, they can usually be tied into better positions than they naturally grow, to provide more light penetration.
well, a & b aren't typical. Side b was moved in there with way too much veg time and side A was the opposite, I just needed to get something flowering.

THIS is what the screen should look like with about a week left of stretch.



Clear away growth under the screen once your scrog is taking hold. This will create more airflow, and growth and down here wont be getting enough light penetration anyways.
I do it a bit differently. I've founf that cutting anyhting other than a fan leave causes like at least a week in stunt time. I find that when you get the screen low enough, early enough.,.....there's really nothing to clip. Scrogging with success to me is reducing the main cola to 4 or 6 medium ones and raising all that lower growth to the screen (by lowering screen) so there is no need to cut an arm. The lower ones are not low anymore and get plenty of light to grow substantial bud, certainly worth keeping instead of chopping and adding stress and time.
 
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The Grim Reefer

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Sorry should have made myself more clear, i didnt mean clear side branches or bottom branches etc. I meant clear away the fan leaves, clear away those bud sites that just pop up on the side of branches underneath the screen.

I've rarely noticed anything but damaging the top bud to cause much of a stunting in cannabis. But every1 has different experiences :t-up:

As for the a or b above not being ideal, meh, Rumple runs probably the most productive scrog i've seen and his is definitely towards B, my more productive scrogs have generally been leaning this way aswell. But i think it comes down to what the strain likes. Satori for example runs much better not in a scrog at all.
 

LBH

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Sorry should have made myself more clear, i didnt mean clear side branches or bottom branches etc. I meant clear away the fan leaves, clear away those bud sites that just pop up on the side of branches underneath the screen.
Yea, totally,...they are going to die anyway. I was told to do it all in one shot so I always have, makes sense.

I've rarely noticed anything but damaging the top bud to cause much of a stunting in cannabis. But every1 has different experiences :t-up:
Wow. I get 2 major stunts, 1 when I clear out all the under fans, once it's established what is going to make it to the screen and what won't. And then again when they reach full height and I do my second sweep of just the larger, blocking fans that can't be tucked. The 2 stunts set me back about a week, week and a half.

As for the a or b above not being ideal, meh, Rumple runs probably the most productive scrog i've seen and his is definitely towards B, my more productive scrogs have generally been leaning this way as well. think it comes down to what the strain likes. Satori for example runs much better not in a scrog at all.
Well, the pics really don't do B justice,lol. I have like a solid foot, 16 inches below the base of the main buds that's just ARM,lol. SUPER stretch ater a super veg, BAAAAd move,lol. They've been supercropped a good 5-8 times just to keep them off the light and ceiling, it's a mess. I like to have 16" buds from the screen up, much like rumple. Issue is, with soil, I could only get them to 10-12" maybe. Now that I'm in hydro, like rumple,...I'm DYING to see what these Pineapples do. I'm done tucking, now we let them go UP for the last week

This is how I scrog. Soil. I'm hoping with hydro, those will be as big and full as rumples.


They probably wont as his lights are stronger but I can aim for the stars anyway, right? lol


I love when these tutorials get rolling, GREAT discussion for everyone to learn from. Scroggers sharing ideas leads to nothing but fuller, higher yielding screens.
 

roorgalore

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hey great tutorial but i have a question
im 12 days into flowering is ti too late to do this ? id really like to maximize my yeild in anyway possible, if its not too late. thanks
 

LBH

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hey great tutorial but i have a question
im 12 days into flowering is ti too late to do this ? id really like to maximize my yeild in anyway possible, if its not too late. thanks
Yea, pretty much. You want to get them under the screen before they begin to stretch. No biggee,...next run, you can read up on it more and be really prepared to rock it. ;)
 

roorgalore

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Yea, pretty much. You want to get them under the screen before they begin to stretch. No biggee,...next run, you can read up on it more and be really prepared to rock it. ;)
dam, well i have my 3 other plants that i used your 4 way lst method on and i want to scrog them, but my concern is that i have to move them into my lightproof flowering box when the time comes, how would i go about this with a scrog?? is it possible? thanks
 

LBH

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dam, well i have my 3 other plants that i used your 4 way lst method on and i want to scrog them, but my concern is that i have to move them into my lightproof flowering box when the time comes, how would i go about this with a scrog?? is it possible? thanks
Yes,..you do it very slowly, methodically and carefully,lol. Another set of hands around will help. Set the screen at 8-10" and slide em under 1 at a time. Use your arms to fold over the tops as you slide it under.

Careful.

I've broken many tops doing this but 80% of them can be saved by simply adding a splint and letting the break heal with support.

again,..be gentle.
 

roorgalore

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Yes,..you do it very slowly, methodically and carefully,lol. Another set of hands around will help. Set the screen at 8-10" and slide em under 1 at a time. Use your arms to fold over the tops as you slide it under.

Careful.

I've broken many tops doing this but 80% of them can be saved by simply adding a splint and letting the break heal with support.

again,..be gentle.
thanks alot
going to start putting my scrog together today!
 

NzLocal

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im paranoid about fan leaves blocking light, as im running 108w all up. Should I be worried about this as the grow progresses or not?
 

LBH

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A few days before they flower, I pull some of the large ones. I do it all at once.
 
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